(Wired) – Can stuffed animals, rose petals, and injections of an Elon Musk–approved dissociative drug help Silicon Valley leaders out of a rut? These women say yes.

“Ketamine is helpful for getting one out of the negative frame of mind,” Elon Musk told an interviewer last year. The unelected man currently gutting US federal programs isn’t the only one who thinks so. Ketamine, approved decades ago as a surgical anesthetic and long used as a party drug, is the off-label mental-health treatment of the moment. It induces a “trancelike” state of “sensory isolation,” researchers say, and may temporarily boost the brain’s neuroplasticity—which, in theory, makes mental ruts easier to escape. At the same time, ketamine abuse can be deadly, and the drug remains illegal to use without a prescription. (Musk says he has one from “an actual, real doctor.”)

WIRED spoke to the cofounders of an organization that offers ketamine-assisted leadership coaching in the San Francisco Bay Area. The two speakers are identified by pseudonyms, which they selected for themselves. Aria Stone has a doctorate in psychology. Shuang Shuang is a spiritual coach. The conversation has been edited for length and clarity. (Read More)